urbanspaceman:

Groups in their audience that the choices in Infinity War and subsequent publicity statements have made it clear the Russos and Feige obviously don’t give a damn about:

  • People of color
  • LGBTQIA of all kinds
  • Women
  • Loki’s fans
  • All people age 37 and over
  • Disenfranchised, alienated people
  • People with abuse or rejection trauma
  • People who enjoy good writing more than unnecessary violence
  • Anybody who isn’t an 18-35 year old white cishet male with a lot of disposable income and a boner for Thanos

Seriously.  If you’re in any of those groups, you should stop supporting the MCU with your money.

I belong to all but one of those groups, and I haven’t given Marvel a cent since TDW came out. And won’t.

kaori04:

Considering Marvel and their villains.

Their villains were boring not because they weren’t sympathetic enough. You can have a fascinating villains that are evil just because, without excuses. Marvel’s villains were boring because they didn’t put any effort in them.

Why it’s hard for me to respect Marvel is because they don’t really love their own stories and characters and are not interesting in developing them. They are just looking for easy formulas that will help to gather the most amount of money they can.

Loki became popular? He was sympathetic? Lets make our next villains sympathetic then, no matter if that makes any sense or not!!

Thanos could have became a great terrifying villain without all of that

“sympathetic”

nonsense, but Marvel is blinded by that idea of easy formula, so we got what we got.

lokiloveforever:

jackpittgregor:

hisasgardianangel:

Yeah, okay assholes. Let’s speculate that this self serving psychopath can be redeemed when half the fandom has shit on Loki’s Army for years for finding the good in him and he actually WASN’T a psychopath with no redeeming qualities. But this is fine. I’m just bitter.

They better not. I swear to all that is holy, I am so sick of this shit. Between Kylo Ren and now Thanos, I’m so done. 

Unfuckingbelievable

I HATE MARVEL SO FUCKING MUCH

See, the thing Marvel was doing with Gagnarok was, putting us females “in our place”.

They took the male character who we identify with. He’s brilliant. He has magical powers. He had access to tons of magical relics and a royal treasury.

And he was forced to resort to prostitution to survive.

Prostitution to a man almost as ugly and repulsive as the men responsible for that screenplay.

This is what the men at Marvel Studios think of women – or what they want us to think of ourselves, anyway: that no matter how many abilities and achievements we have, we’re still only good for one thing.

mosellegreen:

So guys, the thing about Marvel… the reason most of the movies are so shitty, and that Marvel keeps stabbing us in the back… is that these movies are not made for us.

They are made for young men who just want a release of testosterone by watching muscle-bound guys beat each other up and occasional boobs. The intended audience doesn’t give a flying fuck about character development, or plot logic, or even right and wrong.

Their target audience is the guys who gave the world Gamergate.

Usually we don’t care about this. In a movie starring Jean-Claude Van Damme or something, no one expects complexity or logic, everyone expects punching and explosions.

Unfortunately for us, they accidentally hired a couple of super-talented actors who gave depth to what were supposed to be cardboard characters. And we begged them to follow through and they were really pissed. What are those girls doing in here? How dare they want something good? We’re trying to indulge ourselves in mindless escapism here.

That’s why they keep screwing Loki, alternately torturing his character or giving him stupid scenes. It’s why they hired the worst director currently drawing breath, the loathsome Taika Waititi, to direct Loki’s fourth movie: to punish us for loving Loki.

These movies aren’t for us. Really great things could be made of these raw materials but for the most part they won’t be, no matter how much we beg for a Loki movie that doesn’t try to pretend that some other character is the main one (as if Loki wouldn’t be the central character of any story he was in), or a Black Widow movie, or less whitewashing of characters, or a logical resolution to plots that have spanned several movies, or for Steve and Bucky to get officially married already. They’d make huge bank on these things, but they won’t, because they hate us more than they love money.

Let’s channel our frustration into creating new canons that follow through on their promises. That achieve their potential. The way they back-stabbed us will never stop hurting, but we can create something good out of it.

And those of you who decide to do just that, please, link me. I wanna read or watch it.

I’m so gratified this keeps getting notes. Something I should have mentioned here, but didn’t think of sooner:

Gagnarok implied that Loki was forced to prostitute himself in order to survive as part of Marvel’s punishment for women. “You identify with this guy? Fine, we’ll force him to sell his body! Even though that makes no sense whatsoever! We want you females to remember your place!”

And the way they keep “forgetting” how powerful and clever he is so that he makes idiotic mistakes or is easily overpowered… this is just the usual fictional male overcoming formidable women, Hercules defeating Hippolyte, Achilles defeating Penthesilea, etc., only one step removed because the symbolic woman is a man with some feminine qualities who many women identify with and love.

Just, fellow women, don’t forget how much Marvel hates us. Because they hate us a lot.

Hey Marvel: poverty exists because of power structures, not people, thank you very much

calime33:

postmodernmulticoloredcloak:

calime33:

postmodernmulticoloredcloak:

(Not actually spoilery, just discusses the basis of Thanos’ actions in the movie.)

They say a story is only as good as its antagonist, and I’d add, a story is only as good as the motivations of its antagonist. Black Panther was perfect because the motivations of Killmonger mirrored very real, very important issues of our world. The Winter Soldier worked because ‘we’re using an algorithm to analyze people’s internet activity to collect data about citizens and subtract all freedom from them’ is quite a familiar thing, so is white men in position of power disregarding others’ bodily autonomy and abusing them. In Iron Man 3 an American white man seeking profit convinced people that the enemy was a made-up islamic terrorist. In Thor Ragnarok Hela represented the militaristic past of a society that grew wealthy with imperialism – her motivation was literally death, but that mirrored the blood-thirst of imperialistic nations.

“I need to kill half the population because resources are scarce, there’s too many people so they live in poverty, if there were less people resources would be enough for people to live comfortably – but don’t worry, it’s not evil, because I’m going to kill with equality, rich and poor alike!” is a shit motivation, which utterly, incredibly misses the point of why poverty exists and how scarcity of resources works.

People aren’t poor because there aren’t enough resources for them. People don’t starve because there’s not enough food. (Before you argue, maybe that’s the case on other planets in the Marvel universe: stories exist for us on earth.) Resources aren’t scarce in themselves, scarcity of resources is artificial. It’s a matter of power, discrimination, profit, who has the weapons and controls the ways to manipulate people’s imagination. Of course, if half the planet’s population were to die suddenly (think of some dramatic event like the epidemic that killed a third of the population of Europe in the span of a few years), there would be some drastic consequences on the immediate term, but not necessarily positive for who survives. It’s no longer the 1300s – the economical issues aren’t the same, I’m not going to go in depth because I’m not an expert and I don’t want to say something wildly incorrect, but in short, the problem with our planet is not that not enough cereals pop up from the soil, it’s a deliberate devaluation of labor and non-privileged human life. That’s not automatically solved by diminishing the population, because labor does require less people than in the 1300s, so less people wouldn’t necessarily mean higher contractual power. But that doesn’t really matter, that’s not the point. The point is that “overpopulation” is a problem not in itself, but because of how resources are distributed, and that depends on power structures.

But Marghe, you could say, Thanos is the antagonist, so we’re supposed to assume that his ideas are bad. Yes, but the movie does never address why his ideas are bad other than a generic ~killing billions and billions of people might not really be ethically great, dude~. When he expresses his ideas, the characters just dismiss them as crazy, because killing innocents en masse is bad. No one really addresses the fact that less people doesn’t automatically mean more resources for the ones who remain, or that poverty isn’t the fault of people who suffer from it. Gamora argues that it’s better to be poor but ‘free’ and with your loved ones, but the idea is that your loved ones dying and an evil dude using you for his evil plans is bad, which is a pretty obvious concept and politically irrelevant.

What’s politically relevant is the unspoken concept underlying. The idea that poor people are poor (especially in certain areas of the world) because they make too many children, leading to overpopulation compared to resources, is very real and widespread in racist societies – a lot of Europeans, for instance, believe that ~Africans~ (as Africa is supposedly a homogenous place where people are automatically poor and children starve, and also neo-imperialism and neo-colonialism are not a thing, actually exploitation of African countries has never been a thing, right?) are poor because, forgive the crudeness, women won’t keep their legs closed and they make too many children. It’s their fault they’re poor, they’re stupid and won’t think that if they make too many new people they won’t be able to feed them! (I wonder where anti-contraception propaganda comes from, uh? Oh, wait) Even someone like Macron expressed that idea recently, despite France still draining money and resources from its former colonies. But nooo, it’s the Black people’s fault for being promiscuous and stupid.

So, yeah, your antagonist’s motivations suck, Marvel. Also, mind, it’s not a matter of the unrealistic-ness of magic stones or whatnot – I can make a suspension of disbelief for all the things in the MCU from Steve’s serum to vibranium technology to the Hulk to Asgard and gods and talking raccoons and all. It’s a matter of the underlying implications of the character’s motivations. From a merely logical point of view, halving the universe’s population won’t solve the universe’s problems, because the amount of people isn’t the problem. It just makes no sense – it would make sense if the narrative actually addressed it, if someone said ‘wait Thanos that’s not how things work’, but it doesn’t happen. What we’re left with is the idea that Thanos’ solution is not good (killing innocents=bad), we aren’t led to question his idea of where the problem lies.

And this is why I find it totally abhorrent that in promo interviews it was said that they wanted to make him a relatable villain. It literally makes me throw up in my mouth a little.

Also, using people’s misery as a justification for letting them die or outright genocide is not an innocent concept. Throughout history many oppressors have justified the treatment of oppressed people with the oppressed people’s poverty. “We’re improving their lives” has been used as a justification for colonialism, slavery, wars. “They’re so poor and it’s unacceptable!! We need an intervention, it might be a little rough at first and it might require some sacrifices but eventually they’ll be thanking us :))))” sounds familiar?

If the movie had actually framed Thanos’ intentions on this kind of level, it would have been very interesting, actually – Thanos as a metaphor for imperialistic oppression – but nothing about the movie suggests they wanted us to really read the story as an allegory for that. The concept of genocide is thrown there without a real political corollary of implications around it. 

Also note that “genocide” doesn’t mean “killing a lot of people”. Genocides in history are deliberate attempts to wipe out a certain group of people that is identified though real or supposed ethnical, national, religious traits and othered by convincing everyone else that those people are subhuman. Killing people indiscriminately is not a genocide, it’s a slaughter. By calling Thanos’ actions a genocide, you’re also emptying the concept of genocide of its meaning.

The movie started on an interesting note, in my opinion, by making that goon of Thanos sound extremely creepy (rejoice, blah blah) which suggested a sort of "religious” coding of Thanos’ cult-like group, but that ended in nothing, and in fact it did seem like they were making a very botched attempt at making Thanos sort of “understandable” – oh he doesn’t want people to live in poverty!! Well neither do I, but I don’t want billions of innocents to die, so maybe we’re not really the same.

Plus, of course, the very “poor Kylo Ren, his dad died, he feels so sad :(((((” scenario. Not relatable.

… incidentally, while I naturally tend to be interested in, gravitate towards and care about the motivations of or sympathise with villains, Kylo Ren and Thanos are two current ones that actually feel abhorrent and unsympathetic to me (and partly because they feel too close to some of the current reality) , and it kind of weirds me out a bit that they both actually seem to be intended to be relatable villains by TPTB…

This is Marvel’s attempt to make a sympathetic villain on purpose. 

lucianalight:

shine-of-asgard:

So let me get this straight: Thanos is custom designed to be “sympathetic” and the writers chose to base this on the fact that he’s burdened by the horrific stuff he freely chose to do? Poor thing, he like a crocodile, crying while chewing his victims. Sympathetic my ass, and that the writers decided that his “love” for Gamora (in reality his twisted sense of entitlement to Gamora) was to be his saving grace speaks very unfavorably of everyone involved in decision-making process.

Really, what is wrong with them? Can’t they see how wrong this is!? And how it can sends a very wrong message that this form of love is actually love and not another form of abuse and it can make abusers sympathetic in the eyes of people? I mean TR’s case was more subtle, but this??? What the hell is wrong with you Marvel?

This is what happens when they try to make a sympathetic villain on purpose. “See? He’s horrible! Doesn’t that make you sympathize with him?”