vampireapologist:

the funniest vampire bullshit will forever be some vampire lamenting having to kill while theyre actively killing and monologuing like “truly, I am the most hated creature in god’s narrowed eye, the new modern prometheus, my purpose an eternal question, my existence a curse. is there a single person, even a fleeting thought, that has ever spent a moment beneath the same moon as I while feeling this unique pain? Pity me, world, for no one now is as miserable as I”

and the dude literally bleeding to death in the vampire’s arms, they never get a line, but if they did, it would probably be “okay now hold up if this is a contest about who’s having the worse fucking night,”

You know, I love a lot of fiction that features this (i.e. Anne Rice), but now I can’t unsee it as a bunch of fucking manpain.

tikkunolamorgtfo:

Full offence but if you think the traumas of oppressed populations (e.g. Native genocide, Slavery, The Holocaust, etc.) are just plot vehicles you can use in your storytelling to further the character development of violent white men, you can go ahead and fling yourself into the sun.

adarafaelbarbas:

  • Not every female death is fridging
  • It is not fridging if a female just happens to die, like in a battle, especially if other males die with her
  • It is not fridging if a female dies and a male grieves over her
  • A male grieving and/or being traumatized by a female’s death is not manpain
  • A male making a female’s random death all about him IS manpain
  • It IS fridging if a female is killed off solely to provide angsty manpain for a male

morethanprinceofcats:

ceiphiedknight:

roane72:

worriedaboutmyfern:

This morning I’m thinking about manpain. Specifically, superhero angst.

Specifically Batman. And Captain America.

As a digression, I feel like what distinguishes “manpain” from just regular pain is not so much the man but the shooting directions. Like, you know it’s manpain when the camera goes into tight closeup on their clenched jaw, or when they are shot backlit in an alley with smoke swirling around their feet. Or with a big fire blazing behind them. Or if they are trudging through a crowded cityscape that’s all black and white and they are the only ones in color.

Case in point: this is Batman. His parents are dead. It’s very sad. He has a lot of manpain.

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Because of all his pain, Batman is not fully able to trust anyone. He pushes everyone away. Sometimes he lashes out against those closest to him.

This is Batman at Christmas time.

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Batman is not ever going to go to therapy and deal with his trust issues, or talk about whether he might have something like depression and whether it might respond to medication, even though he could definitely afford it because he is a billionaire. He’s not going to do these things because of editorial decree.

“They put on a cape and cowl for a reason,” says DC co-publisher Dan Didio. “They’re committed to defending others — at the sacrifice of all their own personal instincts. That’s something we reinforce. If you look at every one of the characters in the Batman family, their personal lives kind of suck.”

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Okay. This is Captain America. His parents are dead too. Actually, almost everybody he ever knew is dead, because he got frozen for seventy years.

image

(By the way if you do a Google image search for “Captain America Punching Bag,” Google will show you some stuff and will also, right at the top, helpfully prompt you with a couple other search terms that you’re probably interested in: “Chris Evans” and “Butt.”)

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(A++ Google, carry on.)

Anyway, so Captain America has a lot of manpain too.

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Because he’s grieving and lonely, Captain America works hard at forming connections with the new people he meets. He doesn’t understand their frame of cultural reference, so he diligently follows up whenever somebody gives him a book or movie or other kind of recommendation.

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He visits a support group for veterans.

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He also checks in with his teammates regularly, and makes sure they know that he cares about them. He listens to their problems and offers his support.

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So my point here is pretty simple. I think the Captain America characterization is a lot more interesting and complex. It just gets boring to have a character like Batman who is always going to have the same shit because he’s never gonna deal with his shit because he’s not allowed to deal with his shit. By contrast, Steve Rogers is warm and human and adult and fucken’ heroic. He’s got shit too but he mans up and carries it the best he can.

Both Batman and Captain America are actually team leaders, but Batman isn’t allowed to be a very good one because he also has to be a brooding loner who hangs out on top of gargoyles most of the time. Preferably in the rain.

Captain America gets rained on, too. The difference, I think, is that at some point he would go out and buy an umbrella.

Captain America gets rained on, too. The difference, I think, is that at some point he would go out and buy an umbrella.

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS ^^^^

I love Batman, but I cannot deny these truth words.

At the very least, at least Bruce has always trusted Alfred.

I love this but I want to add that I love Steve in TWS not because I’m applauding him for not being a manpain-y douche, but because it’s meaningful to me to see him work things out. It’s worth noting that his attempts to work on his problems don’t make them disappear – by the end of the film he has actively offered himself up to death.  He’s not actively committing suicide, but it’s a strong possibility.  And it’s not just a sacrifice of heroic proportions – he is definitely depressed the entire movie long.  But he still ends the movie alive and with the emotional connections he’s made along the way – Sam is with him. Natasha respects him and considers him a friend (even giving him a lil kiss! i love that friendship a lot ok). Nick Fury “comes the closest he ever gets to saying thank you” to him.  And Bucky, his friend, is out there somewhere, now himself beginning to look into who he was, to follow down that path that could lead to healing.

This story isn’t just a good response to toxic masculinity and the norms about men only being good heroes and protagonists if they embody it, but a good story about somebody going through a lot of shit, and it’s meaningful to me as somebody who goes through a lot of shit. 

thedragonhand:

duaedesigns:

animatedamerican:

stephendann:

pluckyredhead:

the-real-seebs:

animatedamerican:

morethanprinceofcats:

actually on this topic

manpain is a META concept that exists to discuss FICTIONAL SEXISM. in real life, if you laughed about “someone’s manpain”, you would be a disgusting piece of shit for a human being no matter what your gender was. if you were laughing that someone’s life was destroyed by the death of their mom or their fiancee you would be a fucking shitheel not worth my time, and i would not watch a fucking tv series about you.

Oh god yes.  Are there people who don’t realize this?

The significant difference between fiction and real life is that in real life things just happen, whereas in fiction things only happen because of choices made by the writer/s.

When fancritics talk about manpain, we’re not mocking Bruce Wayne or Dean Winchester for their suffering; we’re mocking the writers for thinking that hurting them is the best way to tell the story, and that killing (usually female) characters they love is the best way to hurt them.

And perhaps more importantly: Killing off female characters is a good way to “hurt” them that won’t actually hurt them or slow them down, it’ll just make them mad.

“Manpain” is not the same thing as “pain felt by men”.

Also, male characters get to wallow in their pain and it’s used to justify any amount of bad decisions or antisocial behavior, whereas female characters are supposed to dust themselves off and stop whining, or they’re not “likable.”

Manpain is the prioritization metric that says the lose of one person by a male character in a story must be tended and treated as more significant than any lose faced by a female character.

Manpain is the Pain-but-also-not-emotional response of Stoic McGrimFace who expresses his loss through extremely unhealthy coping behaviours like serial killing, mass murder sprees, combat cosplay, and alcoholism.

Like, the hardboiled detective novel – a woman walks into the detective’s office to get an investigation into the recent death of her husband last week, and she is supposed to be immediately sexually available to the detective, with no emotional resonance from her husband’s death, whilst Unshaved Broodman of the Clan BroodingManPain is still drinking himself off the force because he lost his buddy back in ‘67 and it’s 1980

That shit is manpain.  Like ManPain™: ask for it by double on the rocks!

Lot of good commentary’s been added to this post since I last saw it.

Mr. Detective drinks because he lost his buddy. Mrs. Detective was attacked herself. Batman loses his parents, Harley Quinn gets attacked and broken by a madman. Drax loses his family, Gamora gets tortured by a supervillain. Fictional men are hurt by taking their property, fictional women are damaged as property.

I just watched something last night where a cop’s (tough, ex-CIA agent) wife was kidnapped and put in an air-tight room to make the good guys let a bad guy go. And they raced to find her as he beat more people up than usual, and they did find her. Three minutes too late.

I’m sitting there, making comments like “They fridged her. They did not need to fridge her to add to his man-pain. Now, the next episode will be all about him going completely off the rails, because he’s in pain and must Hunt Them Down and Kill Them All. And anything he does will be “understandable” and waved off, no matter how illegal or morally reprehensible – because Man Pain.” And I was right. That’s exactly what the previews showed.

amajordoseofinsanity:

animatedamerican:

stephendann:

pluckyredhead:

the-real-seebs:

animatedamerican:

morethanprinceofcats:

actually on this topic

manpain is a META concept that exists to discuss FICTIONAL SEXISM. in real life, if you laughed about “someone’s manpain”, you would be a disgusting piece of shit for a human being no matter what your gender was. if you were laughing that someone’s life was destroyed by the death of their mom or their fiancee you would be a fucking shitheel not worth my time, and i would not watch a fucking tv series about you.

Oh god yes.  Are there people who don’t realize this?

The significant difference between fiction and real life is that in real life things just happen, whereas in fiction things only happen because of choices made by the writer/s.

When fancritics talk about manpain, we’re not mocking Bruce Wayne or Dean Winchester for their suffering; we’re mocking the writers for thinking that hurting them is the best way to tell the story, and that killing (usually female) characters they love is the best way to hurt them.

And perhaps more importantly: Killing off female characters is a good way to “hurt” them that won’t actually hurt them or slow them down, it’ll just make them mad.

“Manpain” is not the same thing as “pain felt by men”.

Also, male characters get to wallow in their pain and it’s used to justify any amount of bad decisions or antisocial behavior, whereas female characters are supposed to dust themselves off and stop whining, or they’re not “likable.”

Manpain is the prioritization metric that says the lose of one person by a male character in a story must be tended and treated as more significant than any lose faced by a female character.

Manpain is the Pain-but-also-not-emotional response of Stoic McGrimFace who expresses his loss through extremely unhealthy coping behaviours like serial killing, mass murder sprees, combat cosplay, and alcoholism.

Like, the hardboiled detective novel – a woman walks into the detective’s office to get an investigation into the recent death of her husband last week, and she is supposed to be immediately sexually available to the detective, with no emotional resonance from her husband’s death, whilst Unshaved Broodman of the Clan BroodingManPain is still drinking himself off the force because he lost his buddy back in ‘67 and it’s 1980

That shit is manpain.  Like ManPain™: ask for it by double on the rocks!

Lot of good commentary’s been added to this post since I last saw it.

ManPain stems from a misused trope in how to write a compelling story.

In fiction it is good practice for the main character to have issues, a past that affects them at a core level, an event or events that colour the way they think and act, culminating in a flaw that must be overcome for them to succeed at the end of the story. 

A good protagonist does two things, 1.they get themselves into trouble through their own actions. Rather than stuff happening to them through bad luck, or outside forces not under their control. It is the protagonist’s job to make a stupid spur of the moment decision that lands them up shit creek without a paddle. 2.They aren’t allowed to wallow in self pity for more than a minute and as a writer it is your job to keep them off balance and busy enough that they don’t have the time to. They should grow through action and/or a deep realisation, eureka moment where things become clear.

To but it simply they need agency.

Next, the character must suffer adversity and overcome it, or not, if it’s one of those stories but for this example we shall say they should. This usually means piling on hellish punishments to your protagonist and their friends to make them suffer and grow. We need the reader to want them to succeed and be cheering them on and we want the reader to sympathise and throw the book across the room when things go wrong because we want the reader to care.

Now we come to how things go wrong. 

We fail any of the above rules. This will leave us with an unlikeable character who mops and whines and only has stuff happening to them, they don’t make any choices themselves.

We allow tropes to dictate story rather than support it. This is where ManPain comes in. In fiction we want to allow people to do/be something we don’t see in reality or aspire to. So of course in fiction men are allowed to be emotional and show it but they can’t show it in a tender non manly way because that would be unmanly. But of course this just leads to poor characterization and makes our protagonists look like some unhinged sociopath rather than a human being with actual emotions. The same goes for character deaths. This death means a lot to the character but does it mean anything to the reader? Character deaths should be there to tug at the heart strings of the reader and we shouldn’t need the main character to tell us why or how we should react. Hence why we get character deaths where the main character tells us how upset they are and how their life is so much worse now but not so much worse that the story cannot finish with the protagonist winning. 

Did I say one trope? I meant a half dozen. And ManPain is one of many examples of how a poor understanding of tropes and poor writing craft in general leads to annoying, cliched and bland writing.

animatedamerican:

stephendann:

pluckyredhead:

the-real-seebs:

animatedamerican:

morethanprinceofcats:

actually on this topic

manpain is a META concept that exists to discuss FICTIONAL SEXISM. in real life, if you laughed about “someone’s manpain”, you would be a disgusting piece of shit for a human being no matter what your gender was. if you were laughing that someone’s life was destroyed by the death of their mom or their fiancee you would be a fucking shitheel not worth my time, and i would not watch a fucking tv series about you.

Oh god yes.  Are there people who don’t realize this?

The significant difference between fiction and real life is that in real life things just happen, whereas in fiction things only happen because of choices made by the writer/s.

When fancritics talk about manpain, we’re not mocking Bruce Wayne or Dean Winchester for their suffering; we’re mocking the writers for thinking that hurting them is the best way to tell the story, and that killing (usually female) characters they love is the best way to hurt them.

And perhaps more importantly: Killing off female characters is a good way to “hurt” them that won’t actually hurt them or slow them down, it’ll just make them mad.

“Manpain” is not the same thing as “pain felt by men”.

Also, male characters get to wallow in their pain and it’s used to justify any amount of bad decisions or antisocial behavior, whereas female characters are supposed to dust themselves off and stop whining, or they’re not “likable.”

Manpain is the prioritization metric that says the lose of one person by a male character in a story must be tended and treated as more significant than any lose faced by a female character.

Manpain is the Pain-but-also-not-emotional response of Stoic McGrimFace who expresses his loss through extremely unhealthy coping behaviours like serial killing, mass murder sprees, combat cosplay, and alcoholism.

Like, the hardboiled detective novel – a woman walks into the detective’s office to get an investigation into the recent death of her husband last week, and she is supposed to be immediately sexually available to the detective, with no emotional resonance from her husband’s death, whilst Unshaved Broodman of the Clan BroodingManPain is still drinking himself off the force because he lost his buddy back in ‘67 and it’s 1980

That shit is manpain.  Like ManPain™: ask for it by double on the rocks!

Lot of good commentary’s been added to this post since I last saw it.